Unnatural Relations
Every time I see those two words beside each other in that order I wonder what in the world it means. “Unnatural Relations”. It implies, “relations that go against nature.” What is that? If you look at nature, like nature on a farm, you’ll see that nature seems to go for any relations it can get. Dogs will have sex with rubber balls, stuffed animals, a stray foot pointing out in a convenient direction, other male dogs or female dogs or whatever is convenient. Most animals are that way. They have a lust, they fulfill it.
In that way I’ve always thought of human sexuality as transcending “natural relations”, because we have made sex about more than fulfilling a lust or procreating. Sex, to me, is about two people learning to be one. It is about give and take, sacrifice and dominance, learning to be in control and out of it, giving of yourself and taking of another. That is far more than simply nature, it is a metaphor for all things real and spiritual. It is the dance of creation itself- not because it makes life but because it IS life.
So what is unnatural? Is it unnatural to have sex in a way that doesn’t lead to procreation? Is it a sin to use birth control? Is it a sin when a married and committed couple engage in mutual masturbation or anal sex? Where exactly is the line between natural and unnatural? Is the only holy sex that which is done in the dark with socks still on and both feeling a little embarrassed afterwards?
I really do wonder about these things. When someone tells me to beware of unnatural relations I always want to ask, “what defines natural?” That which is found in nature, that which is primal and crude, or is “unnatural” that which one simply finds distasteful?
Because in my opinion there are a lot of Christian couples that engage in distasteful relations. Maybe I’m still a bit of a heathen.
denfilosofiske replied:
Interesting thouhts, since we´re in a way just like animals, we have the same instincts, so what animals do is natural, and they do alot of things
April 10, 2008 at 5:26 pm. Permalink.
PolitiPornster replied:
Shush, my guru of morality - please tell me that the answer is No to this question, “Is it a sin when a married and committed couple engage in mutual masturbation or anal sex?”
Variety being the spice of life and all, please don’t tell me the variety is now a sin.
April 10, 2008 at 6:31 pm. Permalink.
shush replied:
denfilosofiske: thanks!
PolitiP: Oh you dirty, dirty sinner! *lol* I say- if there are two consenting and committed people, they can do as they please. Of course, I’m a dirty sinner as well. God is still in the forgiving business, right?
April 10, 2008 at 6:41 pm. Permalink.
Brian Alexander replied:
To further answer the above question. The Bible says that the marriage bed is “undefiled” So I agree if bot are ok, get after it.
April 10, 2008 at 7:11 pm. Permalink.
wvhillcountry replied:
Again very well thought out and written. I enjoy your posts everyday and the thought provoking conversations you start.
April 10, 2008 at 7:30 pm. Permalink.
PolitiPornster replied:
Last time I checked God was passing out forgiveness to all of us sinner. That’s the grace and the glory my little Shushie.
April 10, 2008 at 8:53 pm. Permalink.
Sarah replied:
Luckily, because I don’t believe in god, I really don’t have to worry about feeling guilt in bed when I don’t have sex for the sake of creating ‘little nathaniel’.
I do often ponder these questions though and wonder how those that believe in god do get their rocks off without having a moral dilemma.
April 11, 2008 at 1:50 am. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
I always find the arguement about masterbation = murder so interesting. That a man by masterbating is creating a sin by killing the possibility of life. HUH? This also works for using birth control methods. That is considered “Unnatural” too.
Really do people honestly think this is our worst problem that we have in our world? What adult people do behind closed doors? How about we deal with things like hunger, illiteracy, wars, abuse, tirany, injustice!
Sex is a part of our survival. It is built into us as animals in order to continue the survival of our species (oh I have already said that).
Look at it this way, for us women, there has to be some pay off for having to be pregnant for 9 months with a child and giving birth. Why shouldn’t we at least enjoy the getting pregnant part? Why shouldn’t we be allowed to have some physical pleasure by it?
Not to be gross here but… Oral sex works does it not? Anal sex also works mechanically just fine and gives pleasure to both parties. Funny, but there are pleasure zones in the rectum…I wonder why they would be there if not to be used for sex? What exactly is Unnatural about it?
Now, if you were to say someone were to have to cut themselves open or pop out their eyeball to insert an object into their bodies, then that would be unnatural!
April 11, 2008 at 3:30 am. Permalink.
shush replied:
wvhillcountry: thank you, sincerely.
I think the “sin” in that case wasn’t masturbation but greed, don’t you?
Sarah: I don’t ever have a moral dilemma, but I do know women who feel guilty about enjoying sex and I think it’s a shame.
Amber: It all starts with a Bible story in which a man is to have sex with his deceased brothers wife to give her an heir, but he wants his own son to inherit the property, so he masturbates before intercourse. (Genesis 3
April 11, 2008 at 2:08 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
shush… exactly. I think it takes people being able to see it outside the box as you have rather than the literal.
lol I bet he was surprised with the way Nature truly works - when maybe she got pregnant still????
April 11, 2008 at 2:33 pm. Permalink.
Natural Relations and Fear « Fitness for the Occasion replied:
[...] Sush has posted a really thoughtful thread on what meanings one might find behind the phrase Unnatural Relations (emphasis mine): In that way I’ve always thought of human sexuality as transcending “natural [...]
April 11, 2008 at 4:21 pm. Permalink.
frodo441 replied:
…thankx for rubbing everybodies nose in this horse shit…and stay the effin’ out of my bedroom…
April 11, 2008 at 4:29 pm. Permalink.
shush replied:
@ frodo441: Excuse me? I fail to see how I’m “rubbing everybody’s nose” in anything- it is a frank discussion about sexuality, yes, but I offered condemnation to no one.
April 11, 2008 at 4:32 pm. Permalink.
Patricia Volonakis Davis replied:
Sorry - I just have to put my two cents in here - re: your reply to Frodo441.
After this thought-provoking, well written post and all the intelligent responses here, why bother answering someone who has a knee-jerk reaction to a commentray he’s obviously uncomfortable with? Thats’ all it is when people lash out. Yo’ve taken hi out of his comfort zone and he’s not able to be there.It means he has to think.
Some unsolicited advice for next time, Shush - when you put your intellingence and time into something like this and it garners this sort of response, hit DELETE.
April 11, 2008 at 5:50 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
Funny… I was thinking the same thing… the delete button is right there to push for those who just want to spout negative for the sake of it…
April 11, 2008 at 6:51 pm. Permalink.
jaklumen replied:
@ frodo441: I don’t think she’s interested in what’s going on in your bedroom personally, ya dirty pervy.
…and that’s probably the only fish you’re going to catch with all your trolling.
By the way, before you breathe out more flamings, you might want to wait for the older Billy Goat Gruff. Much bigger, juicier, and tastier than I.
You should know what comes next.
April 11, 2008 at 6:56 pm. Permalink.
amberfireinus replied:
lol @ jaklumen you dirty pervy …. rofl you have to be a Brit
April 11, 2008 at 7:39 pm. Permalink.
jaklumen replied:
you have to be a Brit
Nope. Maybe I’ve been hanging around some too much. They’re a bad influence, I tell ya!
April 11, 2008 at 11:05 pm. Permalink.
e2c replied:
jaklumen, ya talks loike one who’s spent days and weeks and so on the scurvy internets!!!
{hee hees at the big billy goat gruff/troll imagery…!!!]
April 12, 2008 at 2:16 am. Permalink.